Comments on: No-frills rankings http://ocvarsity.freedomblogging.com/2008/11/17/no-frills-rankings-4/14944/ High school sports talk by the staff of the Orange County Register Sun, 08 Nov 2009 06:41:50 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.7 hourly 1 By: beachbum http://ocvarsity.freedomblogging.com/2008/11/17/no-frills-rankings-4/14944/#comment-11238 beachbum Thu, 20 Nov 2008 00:16:49 +0000 http://ocvarsity.freedomblogging.com/?p=14944#comment-11238 deee... I know that LH is playing well, but IMHO, depending on your definition of "play with", it's one thing to play with "any" Pac 5 team and something else to assert an "automatic" Sunset League CIFslot. I'm sure a new Pac-5 league could be assembled which would allow LH to not only play with, but win. As it stands now, in the three OC Pac-5 leagues there is so much parity that every league game is critical to win... the gimme games of the old days are long gone in all three OC P5 leagues. That said, I think a lot of questions will be answered this weekend when the Pac 5 teams start to mix it up. We'll all know a lot more exactly how the SC, Sunset and Trinity teams fare against each other... of course, there's still the Serra league teams and LB Poly in the mix... gonna be interesting indeed. deee... I know that LH is playing well, but IMHO, depending on your definition of "play with", it's one thing to play with "any" Pac 5 team and something else to assert an "automatic" Sunset League CIFslot. I'm sure a new Pac-5 league could be assembled which would allow LH to not only play with, but win. As it stands now, in the three OC Pac-5 leagues there is so much parity that every league game is critical to win... the gimme games of the old days are long gone in all three OC P5 leagues.

That said, I think a lot of questions will be answered this weekend when the Pac 5 teams start to mix it up. We'll all know a lot more exactly how the SC, Sunset and Trinity teams fare against each other... of course, there's still the Serra league teams and LB Poly in the mix... gonna be interesting indeed.

]]> By: Deefend http://ocvarsity.freedomblogging.com/2008/11/17/no-frills-rankings-4/14944/#comment-11234 Deefend Wed, 19 Nov 2008 23:38:57 +0000 http://ocvarsity.freedomblogging.com/?p=14944#comment-11234 Beachbum, La Habra this year only!!! would be able to compete with any Pac-5 team. They are the real deal, they can run and pass. They have weapons to score and compete. The only problem with La Habra I saw , would be there defense. The High landers are not a good come from behind team, that is there only weakness. But besides that -they are definetly PAC- 5 material. ONLY THIS YEAR 2008 Beachbum,
La Habra this year only!!! would be able to compete with any Pac-5 team. They are the real deal, they can run and pass. They have weapons to score and compete. The only problem with La Habra I saw , would be there defense. The High landers are not a good come from behind team, that is there only weakness. But besides that -they are definetly PAC- 5 material. ONLY THIS YEAR 2008

]]> By: beachbum http://ocvarsity.freedomblogging.com/2008/11/17/no-frills-rankings-4/14944/#comment-11228 beachbum Wed, 19 Nov 2008 23:17:58 +0000 http://ocvarsity.freedomblogging.com/?p=14944#comment-11228 ex lancer/clan dad... LaHabra has a very good team but the step up from a lower division is a huge leap to play consistant ball every week against top 10 or 25 teams. First of all, to insert LH into Sunset and state that LH would have the 3rd seed is a little too much for this fan... ESPECIALLY WHEN TWO SUNSET CO-CHAMPS WILL BE SITTING AT HOME THIS FRIDAY! REBUTTAL TO YOUR ASSERTION: 1. No points given for ending up on the 4 yd line when time runs out 2. Westminister beat Marina by only one touchdown 3. Sunset teams scored 205 points vs. Marina: 40+ pts per game 4. Sunset teams only allowed 42 points by Marina: 8.4 pts per game 5. LH maxpreps.com opp strength rating: 13.6 6. Sunset co-champs aver opp strength rating: 31.3 (hi 33.7 lo 28.3) 7. LH maxpreps.com strength rating: 35 8. Sunset co-champs average strength rating: 42.9 (hi 46.6, low 38.1) 9. No points given for turnovers in scoring position. The LH program is good, but I'm not convinced that it's an automatic playoff team from the Sunset League. ex lancer/clan dad... LaHabra has a very good team but the step up from a lower division is a huge leap to play consistant ball every week against top 10 or 25 teams. First of all, to insert LH into Sunset and state that LH would have the 3rd seed is a little too much for this fan...
ESPECIALLY WHEN TWO SUNSET CO-CHAMPS WILL BE SITTING AT HOME THIS FRIDAY!

REBUTTAL TO YOUR ASSERTION:
1. No points given for ending up on the 4 yd line when time runs out
2. Westminister beat Marina by only one touchdown
3. Sunset teams scored 205 points vs. Marina: 40+ pts per game
4. Sunset teams only allowed 42 points by Marina: 8.4 pts per game
5. LH maxpreps.com opp strength rating: 13.6
6. Sunset co-champs aver opp strength rating: 31.3 (hi 33.7 lo 28.3)
7. LH maxpreps.com strength rating: 35
8. Sunset co-champs average strength rating: 42.9 (hi 46.6, low 38.1)
9. No points given for turnovers in scoring position.

The LH program is good, but I'm not convinced that it's an automatic playoff team from the Sunset League.

]]> By: ex lancer/clan dad http://ocvarsity.freedomblogging.com/2008/11/17/no-frills-rankings-4/14944/#comment-11062 ex lancer/clan dad Wed, 19 Nov 2008 16:25:03 +0000 http://ocvarsity.freedomblogging.com/?p=14944#comment-11062 la habra is the utah/boise in oc football. since we are in a league based on school district we get no respect on strength of schedule. take away our weak league schedule/ fullerton included/ and include our pre season results,with head to head,strength of common opponents/including a strong south hillsof covina ,throw in all game stats /3turnovers vs los al in scoring position, a complete devestation of westminster who killed marina and a toe to toe battle against san clemente that ended at the 4 yd line/ the tritons didnt overlook us, in fact the players on the team seemed more fired up that some lower level upstart would dare come in teir house expecting to win, or scared that a lwer level team that should have beatin the mighty griffs might actually win. throw all this together and the results would be lahabra a 3rd seed out of the sunset. la habra is the utah/boise in oc football. since we are in a league based on school district we get no respect on strength of schedule. take away our weak league schedule/ fullerton included/ and include our pre season results,with head to head,strength of common opponents/including a strong south hillsof covina ,throw in all game stats /3turnovers vs los al in scoring position, a complete devestation of westminster who killed marina and a toe to toe battle against san clemente that ended at the 4 yd line/ the tritons didnt overlook us, in fact the players on the team seemed more fired up that some lower level upstart would dare come in teir house expecting to win, or scared that a lwer level team that should have beatin the mighty griffs might actually win. throw all this together and the results would be lahabra a 3rd seed out of the sunset.

]]> By: beachbum http://ocvarsity.freedomblogging.com/2008/11/17/no-frills-rankings-4/14944/#comment-11042 beachbum Wed, 19 Nov 2008 13:52:46 +0000 http://ocvarsity.freedomblogging.com/?p=14944#comment-11042 cal-hi sports article: Regular Season Finales A Frenzy November 16, 2008 11:14 PM Five-way tie for Sunset League title in SoCal causes stir... By Mark Tennis & Harold Abend It was the close of the regular season in high school football for most of the state and while the weekend was marred by disastrous fires it was a weekend where ties created the most headlines. In the CIF Southern Section's Sunset League, which annually is one of the state's best, the extremely rare five-way tie was the end result of last Friday's games. The five teams involved  Edison of Huntington Beach, Esperanza of Anaheim, Fountain Valley, Los Alamitos and Newport Harbor of Newport Beach  all finished up with 3-2 league records. We have always hated games of chance to break ties in these situations, but in this case two forms of chance  drawing names out of a hat and flipping coins  were both utilized. First, Newport Harbor was relegated to the fifth spot for section playoff purposes. Since the section's Pac-Five Division only has room for three and then a possible fourth through an at-large process, the Sailors were in effect coin-flipped and hat-drawn out of the playoffs. Next, Edison had to take the fourth position and made an at-large bid, but the Chargers did not get into the Pac-Five Division as that bid on Sunday instead went to Bishop Amat of La Puente. This leaves Esperanza, Fountain Valley and Los Alamitos as the three teams from the league getting to go to the playoffs. Five-way ties are indeed extremely rare and would create a nightmare for any tie-breaker system, but three-way ties are not that rare and it's still hard to believe how many leagues and sections around the state still insist that a coin flip or drawing names out of a hat are the best solutions. Since its own section has had its share of controversial coin flips over the years, the CIF Sac-Joaquin Section has adopted the 13-point margin differential system in breaking ties and early indications are that coaches, players and fans seem to clearly favor it over coin flips. We believe this system is far superior to coin flips as well and would encourage all leagues and sections to use the same tie-breaker. It basically goes like this: the point differential between all head-to-head games between the tied teams is added up, except with the stipulation that the most positive points a team can get is 13, which is used to prevent a team from running up the score. With the five-way tie in the Sunset League creating so much interest, we thought it would be interesting to run those five teams into that format and see what came up. Ironically, the team that would be in the No. 1 position out of the Sunset League using the Sac-Joaquin system would be Newport Harbor with a +6. Esperanza would be next with a +2, followed by Fountain Valley with a -2. Both Los Alamitos and Edison had a -3, but that tie would then be broken by the head-to-head result and would go to Los Al. Coin flips will never completely be gone from football, but they should be gone from determining which teams go to the playoffs and which teams are turning in uniforms. cal-hi sports article:
Regular Season Finales A Frenzy

November 16, 2008 11:14 PM

Five-way tie for Sunset League title in SoCal causes stir...

By Mark Tennis & Harold Abend

It was the close of the regular season in high school football for most of the state and while the weekend was marred by disastrous fires it was a weekend where ties created the most headlines.

In the CIF Southern Section's Sunset League, which annually is one of the state's best, the extremely rare five-way tie was the end result of last Friday's games. The five teams involved  Edison of Huntington Beach, Esperanza of Anaheim, Fountain Valley, Los Alamitos and Newport Harbor of Newport Beach  all finished up with 3-2 league records.

We have always hated games of chance to break ties in these situations, but in this case two forms of chance  drawing names out of a hat and flipping coins  were both utilized.

First, Newport Harbor was relegated to the fifth spot for section playoff purposes. Since the section's Pac-Five Division only has room for three and then a possible fourth through an at-large process, the Sailors were in effect coin-flipped and hat-drawn out of the playoffs.

Next, Edison had to take the fourth position and made an at-large bid, but the Chargers did not get into the Pac-Five Division as that bid on Sunday instead went to Bishop Amat of La Puente. This leaves Esperanza, Fountain Valley and Los Alamitos as the three teams from the league getting to go to the playoffs.

Five-way ties are indeed extremely rare and would create a nightmare for any tie-breaker system, but three-way ties are not that rare and it's still hard to believe how many leagues and sections around the state still insist that a coin flip or drawing names out of a hat are the best solutions.

Since its own section has had its share of controversial coin flips over the years, the CIF Sac-Joaquin Section has adopted the 13-point margin differential system in breaking ties and early indications are that coaches, players and fans seem to clearly favor it over coin flips.

We believe this system is far superior to coin flips as well and would encourage all leagues and sections to use the same tie-breaker.

It basically goes like this: the point differential between all head-to-head games between the tied teams is added up, except with the stipulation that the most positive points a team can get is 13, which is used to prevent a team from running up the score.

With the five-way tie in the Sunset League creating so much interest, we thought it would be interesting to run those five teams into that format and see what came up.

Ironically, the team that would be in the No. 1 position out of the Sunset League using the Sac-Joaquin system would be Newport Harbor with a +6. Esperanza would be next with a +2, followed by Fountain Valley with a -2. Both Los Alamitos and Edison had a -3, but that tie would then be broken by the head-to-head result and would go to Los Al.

Coin flips will never completely be gone from football, but they should be gone from determining which teams go to the playoffs and which teams are turning in uniforms.

]]> By: Tom O http://ocvarsity.freedomblogging.com/2008/11/17/no-frills-rankings-4/14944/#comment-10914 Tom O Wed, 19 Nov 2008 03:33:02 +0000 http://ocvarsity.freedomblogging.com/?p=14944#comment-10914 Los Al - # 8 and ranked above two teams they lost to, come on! That draws a flag for illegal substitution! Rich tradition not going to help the fact that they probably have the worse D in the tourney. Newport had 4 turnover vs. Griffs and won, Edison had 3, lost by 4, La Habra had 3, lost by a touch, Espy dominated them but went to sleep in last 5 minutes. EVERYONE can run on them, but as long as Evans, Jenkins, Richardson get off the bus they always are a threat. I doubt Sunset better than SCL this year. Sunset did have great parity, 5 good teams, (NH out of it is sick!) but SCL top 3 better than Sunsets. SCL should perform better than Sunset starting Friday. TRINITY IS the OC standard. Just my opinions, of course, but based on seeing 9 of top 12 teams (except FV, SC) live numerous times each. Kind of weird Espy not in top 10 -everytime La Habra wins they seem to solid but where NH was like 3 years ago, ready to step up and be prime time, to bad they can't re-align and play big time every week. Los AL fan, by the way, just not kool-aid drinker. Los Al - # 8 and ranked above two teams they lost to, come on! That draws a flag for illegal substitution! Rich tradition not going to help the fact that they probably have the worse D in the tourney. Newport had 4 turnover vs. Griffs and won, Edison had 3, lost by 4, La Habra had 3, lost by a touch, Espy dominated them but went to sleep in last 5 minutes. EVERYONE can run on them, but as long as Evans, Jenkins, Richardson get off the bus they always are a threat. I doubt Sunset better than SCL this year. Sunset did have great parity, 5 good teams, (NH out of it is sick!) but SCL top 3 better than Sunsets. SCL should perform better than Sunset starting Friday. TRINITY IS the OC standard. Just my opinions, of course, but based on seeing 9 of top 12 teams (except FV, SC) live numerous times each. Kind of weird Espy not in top 10 -everytime La Habra wins they seem to solid but where NH was like 3 years ago, ready to step up and be prime time, to bad they can't re-align and play big time every week. Los AL fan, by the way, just not kool-aid drinker.

]]> By: mike92620 http://ocvarsity.freedomblogging.com/2008/11/17/no-frills-rankings-4/14944/#comment-10910 mike92620 Wed, 19 Nov 2008 03:21:24 +0000 http://ocvarsity.freedomblogging.com/?p=14944#comment-10910 In the long run, who cares? The goal is to make it to the playoffs, and once you make it to the playoffs, to win games. This isn't the BCS. Tesoro and Long Beach Poly are not playing for the CIF Pac-5 SS Championship at this point. In the long run, who cares? The goal is to make it to the playoffs, and once you make it to the playoffs, to win games.

This isn't the BCS. Tesoro and Long Beach Poly are not playing for the CIF Pac-5 SS Championship at this point.

]]> By: North OC http://ocvarsity.freedomblogging.com/2008/11/17/no-frills-rankings-4/14944/#comment-10772 North OC Tue, 18 Nov 2008 21:17:08 +0000 http://ocvarsity.freedomblogging.com/?p=14944#comment-10772 How sick do we make you? Because i was just stating a point of view, but if it makes you sick and gets you all wound up inside maybe you should go see a doctor about your sickness. How sick do we make you?
Because i was just stating a point of view, but if it makes you sick and gets you all wound up inside maybe you should go see a doctor about your sickness.

]]> By: Chris Tobolski, OCVarsity.com http://ocvarsity.freedomblogging.com/2008/11/17/no-frills-rankings-4/14944/#comment-10770 Chris Tobolski, OCVarsity.com Tue, 18 Nov 2008 21:10:03 +0000 http://ocvarsity.freedomblogging.com/?p=14944#comment-10770 To clarify on the last point: La Habra would beat some Pac 5 schools. Valencia beat Capo Valley this year. But La Habra hasn't beaten a top-10 PAC-5 county school. To clarify on the last point:

La Habra would beat some Pac 5 schools. Valencia beat Capo Valley this year.

But La Habra hasn't beaten a top-10 PAC-5 county school.

]]> By: matt http://ocvarsity.freedomblogging.com/2008/11/17/no-frills-rankings-4/14944/#comment-10750 matt Tue, 18 Nov 2008 20:37:09 +0000 http://ocvarsity.freedomblogging.com/?p=14944#comment-10750 Because La Habra simply doesn't have the strength of schedule to stay in one spot. Maybe if they were in the Pac 5 it would be different; actually it would be different. Trinity, Sunset, South Coast all have proven year after year that they have top tier programs just because La Habra has had a good two years doesn't mean they are at the same level. Yes, they played two Pac 5 teams this year. Yes, they played them stuff only losing by a combined 14 points. But the fact is they lost, and a lost is a lost whether or not is by one or by 40. You La Habra people make me sick, you have great pride, but with that pride all you show is arrogance. You want credit, even when it is not desevred. Beat a Pac5 team and maybe it will happen. Carry your heads high, win the southwest division, and come back next year and beat a Pac 5 team. Because La Habra simply doesn't have the strength of schedule to stay in one spot. Maybe if they were in the Pac 5 it would be different; actually it would be different. Trinity, Sunset, South Coast all have proven year after year that they have top tier programs just because La Habra has had a good two years doesn't mean they are at the same level. Yes, they played two Pac 5 teams this year. Yes, they played them stuff only losing by a combined 14 points. But the fact is they lost, and a lost is a lost whether or not is by one or by 40.

You La Habra people make me sick, you have great pride, but with that pride all you show is arrogance. You want credit, even when it is not desevred. Beat a Pac5 team and maybe it will happen. Carry your heads high, win the southwest division, and come back next year and beat a Pac 5 team.

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